Agencynomics: Growing a Top 10 UK Digital Agency to Exit with Spencer Gallagher – Episode 36

Growing an Agency for Exit

Nathaniel Schooler 0:19
Today I’m interviewing Spencer Gallagher; who is the CEO and co founder of Cactus. Cactus is the UK’s leading agency growth consultancy and they have supported over 1000 agencies globally over the past eight years. Cactus works with the next generation of independent agencies to help them scale.

Spencer is also the co author of Agencynomics, the Amazon five star rated, best selling book and audio book aimed to help all types of agencies scale from startup to the first three to 5 million in revenue.

Spencer started his agency life in 1999 and exited his agency Blue Halo to Gyro in 2008 and took Blue Halo and Gyro to the eighth largest digital agency in the UK in 2009. Gyro is now part of the Dentsu network.

We just have a general chit-chat really is quite an interesting episode if you’re in the agency world and want to scale and exit!

Well hi there, Spencer. It’s nice to speak to you again.

Spencer Gallagher 1:29
Always great to catch up. We have our we have these fantastic conversations from time to time. And I always look forward to them Nate.

Nathaniel Schooler 1:39
Yeah, me too, me too. So I know you’ve built a big business and you’ve you’ve sold it wasn’t a top 10 digital agency in the UK?

Spencer Gallagher 1:47
Oh yeah. When I when I finally accepted Blue Halo we were actually we were ranked 10th largest digital agency in the UK. So was quite an achievement really considering I started in a shed in. My Mum’s back garden in 1999 and had to weather the.com crash in 2000, 2001.

So it was good journey. And I built this business up. I sold it to a larger advertising company in the end sort of to take over the mantle and continue the journey. But I used to build all the Premiership football club websites is to build at Tottenham Liverpool What would you like Andy Murray, the Premier League. So

But I used to build all the Premiership football club websites is to build at Tottenham and Liverpool. Work with people like Andy Murray, the Premier League. So we’re pretty big in sports. Blackberry when we always use BlackBerrys before iPhones as a big client as well, but yeah, so that was that was the sort of my it’s my first business success.

Nathaniel Schooler 2:37
Fantastic. There must have been a lot of fun. So how many did you have a lot of employees there, Spencer?

Spencer Gallagher 2:43
Yeah, the team in the end was finished up but as you finish up to so 200 in my digital team in the end but the the group that they then bought up by I was in the leadership team of about 600.

So we were running marketing advertising and digital campaigns globally across the world. So yeah, I was quite a bit quite quite a quite a big team. But you know, not 10s of thousands. So maybe it was it a small, big business?

Nathaniel Schooler 3:13
So it wasn’t a lifestyle business for you? It was it was it was a scalable exit? planned exit? Right?

Spencer Gallagher 3:20
Well, I don’t Yeah, it wasn’t really planned. I guess when I started. I actually had been made redundant three times in one year from sales jobs. I realized that people were becoming more and more impatient with with the sales people and the results that they bring in. And I think every time I got made redundant, I think all the deals I’ve been working on sort of came in so I made this decision.

I was in my spare time I was building websites in the early 90s and I’ve been to America and I’d seen all the TV adverts over there containing website URLs, you know, before they were in the UK; I decided to start to, you know, build our business really, building websites for people at that stage.

You know, I am literally in a purple shed in my Mum’s back guards and building websites for the local Indian restaurant and, you know, local hire companies and small and the business was lifestyle you know.

I think I was earning you know year once and like 35,000 pounds but I was working for myself working the hours I wanted to work in year two which is probably half my salary By the way, you know my first year earnings in the business but yeah I was up to about the same maybe bit more 70/ 80,000 pounds a year.

There were two of us and it was very much a lifestyle business. In fact, in my head I can only really ever see myself at that stage growing growing the business of about eight people had no visions of grandeur, no visions of scaling and selling I think the business kind of just, you know, the internet you know, grew massively through mostly the.com crash happened early 2000s by 2003 BT had moved on to this thing called broadband away from SDN and all of a sudden I found myself I had like 1000 clients by about 2005 and the business just started to grow.

We were a Deloitte tech fast 50 and European Fast 500 growth business and the business you started scaling really fast and as a result of that the chaos that happens.

I mean I was just trying to grow the business to be the biggest in the country but it got to a point where organic growth was quite hard and I didn’t maybe have all the cash needed to to go and buy a business to grow through acquisition to become even bigger.

Somewhere along the journey you know I met some a big fan of accountants who said look there may be another way for you to get to your end goal you know by actually becoming part of something much bigger and that’s kind of how I guess I ended up selling the business is you know they took my billings and took their billings and put them together and it and it made up you know much bigger business but you know I did okay out of the exit you know I own the business 100% which really helped my sold the business particularly you know, good point in the economy just pull everything crashed in 2008 but I would like to say I was a genius and time that well, but I’m not saying anything.

So, yes, I mean, that was really the truthful story. I mean, I definitely woke up a couple of times and thought this is quite getting quite hard now, you know, it’s getting quite burns how often at times when I wasn’t really looking after myself taking enough holidays, maybe working a bit too hard. But yeah, I think it wasn’t a conscious decision to build and sell weirdly.

Today is quite different because now I’m helping businesses and going in and ask more and helping them scale this time.

I kind of ask them up front, I say:-

“What are you doing?

You know, are you like me?

Are you looking at initially just to build an eight man agency ?

Are you looking to build you know, are you looking for world domination?”

And I think I try and find that early on with people when I work with them. I think it’s important that people understand what it is they’re doing on whatever What does the journey look like on both sides and I guess different types of personalities probably take on different have different visions for their business as well and different ambitions. So yeah, so that’s kind of I guess that’s kind of eerie.

I mean, you know any early days of helping businesses; I was bit anti lifestyle because I was also built and sold a business myself and it and it seems to be quite a successful route and both my parents had lifestyle businesses you know. Nothing glamorous about a cleaning companies; but at the end of their you know when they went to retire they have a lot to show for it you know yes they had paid the mortgages off, they always had nice cars but they hadn’t really you know maybe created massive into wealth independence.

So when I was first going in you know I was sort of trying to convince everyone why they should scale but I guess I kind of maturity in the role of helping and mentoring a coach to be able to grow I started to realise actually most important thing is that people are going to have a lifestyle business that they don’t just take all the cash out their business. And you know use it for their for their personal living expenses where they actually start to use that money to invest in the in their retirement in their future.

Because I do get a lot of phone calls from people in their 60s go

“Hey I built this agency over the last 20-30 years and you know there’s six of us are just I’d like to know if I could sell the business now?”

And it’s just not worth anything right it’s been you know there’s no value in that business at all you know that the relationships of all with the owners yeah I said I do say have you been saving away for the last 30 years I’ve done and I know I want to grow it and sell it now and I’m like:-

“You are probably a bit late if I’m honest”

So I think it is it is important to know from the outset What are you trying to do and I’ve had people who say the going to scale and then kind of decide that is too hard and focus on lifestyle and I’ve had people who have scaled and make no money and people will say lifestyle have made fortunes and yeah so I think the difference is is you know is often quite subjective whether or not you know lifestyle business can’t make as much money as a business that sells but on the whole you know is important for me that’s fine it which which is their particular route, and then hopefully optimise the business, you know, around their plans for that.

It’s quite, quite long answer that really wasn’t?

Nathaniel Schooler 9:07
Well, it’s good to get to the bottom of it, isn’t it? You know, whilst you were talking, I was thinking about my Dad and you know, they had a lifestyle business, my Mum and Dad and and it you know when I grew up it was it was kind of weird like it was just sort of like you know but my Dad he didn’t treat it like a lifestyle business because he loved it so much it’s kind of like when a hobby becomes a business.

You, kind of just work all the hours under the sun and you don’t have a hobby anymore and it’s and it’s a really difficult call, you know, it’s just like there’s, there’s a there’s a thing you know, yes, you got a passion for what you do. But like if you if you step away from it, and you go well:-

“Actually, I’m not looking after myself. I’m not looking after my friends, my family and my exercise routine and my meditation”

You know, whatever you enjoy doing then it’s not a lifestyle business it’s just like a business that you’ve been sucked into you know and that’s that’s that’s a real struggle for me because I’m working really hard in you know to grow what I’m doing and I love everything that I do.

I’m not gonna lie there’s always admin that drives around the bend right? But it’s it’s it’s not easy no i mean.

Spencer Gallagher 10:21
I think you know, people have got to understand that a lifestyle business still needs to grow because you know, if it’s not growing it’s dying so you can’t just necessarily sit back and you know let the passive income roll in; because ultimately in the end it’ll come under threat or you know, the business will start to fade away so you have to invest time in it and then there’s a fine line isn’t between that time of keeping what’s important to you and balance you know.

I have this sort of grid that I draw a matrix like I sort of right my wife myself my kids and my business and I sort of score them plus for too much minus for not enough. And plus-minus.

I constantly try and keep myself in check so I’m getting time for myself, time for my kids, time for my wife and you know in time for the business because actually today I mean I guess my business now is a lifestyle business and just like you just said I’ve hit a point I wrote a book last year and that almost tipped over the lifestyle business a point where everyone was slowly towards you.

Everyone was kind of you know so more people want to work with you and I think you know tomorrow and I’ve got my Son’s parents evening something like when I have my scalable business I used to I mean I didn’t really see my son to he was 6 years old when I agree my first business I mean it pains me to say that but that is truth is I was up at 6 and those back that you know 10-11 and I probably you know i you know I was that classic you know 90-100 hours a week plus I was working their offices in in you know, 16 countries so you know you’ve got the Middle East you I can we can you know you’re you’re on the phone to West Coast America. til 10-11 at nigh

So I vowed with my, with my new consultancy that I would never do that I would, you know, basically be there and I have been but since the book like for example, I like parents evening. I’m going to struggle to get there and that’s really painful for me because that’s probably the first time I missed one of my son’s football matches you know recently because I couldn’t get back from where I was and I thought all of a sudden it’s starting to now you know encroach and and that that that’s I guess the checking mechanism I’ve got to do myself to try and prevent you know that from happening.

Well, with this business Look, I might go and have another scalable business next time. But for the moment, you know, I’ve got to try and stay true to what I’m doing.

So see I do agree with you.

Nathaniel Schooler 12:46
Sounds like a lot of fun though.

Spencer Gallagher 12:49
Yeah, and you’re right. You know, like if you do what you love, then you never work a day in your life. Right and that’s the hobby thing which is great and I think you know, I do what I love you know, I don’t want to run another agency but I love helping people.

I love working on people’s businesses and and you know and so and I know you’re the same you know you’re passionate about everything that you do you always have been and I think if I think if you do that, you know that mean you know you never work a day in life is so true it’s just sometimes the hobbies you say suddenly just started running away with itself and you’ve always gotten so you can learn to say no Haven’t you?

Nathaniel Schooler 13:22
Yeah, but I think also that needs to be sort of healthy mix between you know the time that you put in and also the technologies that you’re using because there must be certain things I mean I know you’re good with with kind of you know you’ve got you’ve got your pa and she helps organise the finer details of the meetings that you know for instance like chasing me up on this zoom link for the for the record for the recording for this you know but.

Spencer Gallagher 13:47
I’m like you You just said you know that you sort of said about all that the admin I mean I’m you know, I understand who I am and you know, I am a really good I’m a very good strategist.

I’m brilliant with creative ideas. But, you know, detail is not my strong point. So, that’s why my business partner now is my former FD. So I have, you know, a wingman, a business partner who, who handles all the financials. And then I have a PA who enables me or an EA to be able to pick up everything Yo, to do all that detail thinking for me, and, and I think, you know, it’s great when you’ve got a scalable business, because you have all those people around you.

Nathaniel Schooler 14:26
Yeah,

Spencer Gallagher 14:29
When this is you you don’t, you know, you’ve then got to identify that and you’re right, the software tools and, you know, will really, really help you.

And I think that’s where the, probably the most exciting you know, areas are for people like you and I now is because there’s a huge amount of stuff that we can do to, to automate, you know, some of the details, I mean, yeah, certain accounting products now, just making so much easier, right?

So to raise invoices, look, your finances, but what it used to be like, there’s so many great email today, the way that CRM integrates with your email, you know, all those things really help you save time, right.

Nathaniel Schooler 15:02
For sure. But, like then, but then doesn’t it go back to like, thinking will actually, do I have a job?

Or do I have a business? Because, like, there’s a disconnect. And that’s, I think a lot of the problem with a lot of people like I’m going right now, I’m moving from freelancer, I’m in the process of moving from Freelancer to business. Yeah. Oh, no. Yeah, that’s what I’ve been attempting to do. But because of life circumstance, I can’t do that right now. So I’m sort of setting things up for the future. So that’s going to work out a lot of people, they don’t understand the difference.

For example, someone may say, Well, I’m a business owner, it’s like well, okay, so when how many people are in the business?

Oh, it’s just me it’s like well, no, you’re just a self employed freelancer, right?

There’s nothing wrong if you accept the fact that that’s what you are like Seth Godin, he says he’s a self employed freelancer.

Spencer Gallagher 15:57
Yes, yeah, I get that, I think and I would deliberately tried to not with this business to become I’ve been, I’ve been both for the way so I, when I was in the shed in the back garden, I was that freelancers startup and I didn’t have, you know I had a freelance consultant type role.

Is the agencies that don’t commit to employees that that tend to build networks of freelancers that often don’t really grow that fast, because they’re not really committed to the business and not really committed to that.

But the shift was, I guess, when you take on your first employee, because the moment what you start to realise is by recruiting somebody, that frees you up to work on more valuable parts of your business. And in fact, one of the bits of advice I give to the agencies I work with and, you know, people are just generally taught to the sector.

Because I have any a, and because of, you know, Pete and I are in the business. And because we have an, you know, another another employee, we have to pay the wages each month, which means we have this an element of having to hit sales numbers of having to hit, you know, revenue targets and stuff to base your pay for everybody. And that kind of changed the dynamic enough was when it’s just you, right? If you don’t really hit your sales, numbers, it doesn’t really matter, right? Because it’s just you that you’ve got to pay for, and often you’re not living off, you know, huge amounts of money.

And, you know, you can always make it up next month, if you want to. So, I think there is, there is a, there’s a very fine line between being an independent person and then actually making that step to be able to, to recruit and commit to people, you know, to turn this into a business, but it just was you employees, I mean, you could, this is still not a lifestyle business, right?

So, I guess it’s when the business starts to creep up, beyond maybe 15/16 employees, all of a sudden, you know, the dynamics changing and it’s becoming more of a proper business and an agency you can grow and exit.

Nathaniel Schooler 17:53
Then it still could be a lifestyle business couldn’t it?

Spencer Gallagher 17:56
Of course, yes, I’ll tell you, the biggest lifestyle business that I’ve personally been into, is probably about, it’s probably about 90 employees, which, you know, which, you know, probably 8 or 9 million and fees, and it’s a pretty big business, but it can be much bigger.

Nathaniel Schooler 18:16
It’s quite fun, though, isn’t it to to grow an agency to exit?

Spencer Gallagher 18:18
Yeah, you know, but, like, all things, you know, you can’t see the wood for the trees is also really get busy. You kind of, you know, you do, you know, takes me sometimes have to walk away, you know, go for a long walk and just reflect back and, and just remind yourself sometimes how much I love what I do.

But even I get wrapped up you know, sometimes in dealing with like, you know, because I guess when you’re helping other businesses that you’re constantly helping them overcome challenges that they’ve got so sometimes you know, you’re it’s fun but sometimes doesn’t feel like fun when you’re solving their problems for them if that makes sense. Oh, completely. But when I look back I you know I’m very grateful for for you know, for for the opportunity created in this in Cactus. The business I now run.

Writing a book was great fun as well. I cursed and moaned all the way through it. But actually, now I’m seeing the benefits of it. And that’s really, really exciting for me. You know, all of a sudden, when you’ve got people globally contacting you, asking you for help. And also your business goes from, you know, helping people in the UK to helping people around the world.

That’s, that’s fantastic!

Nathaniel Schooler 19:22
Yeah, I think I’m going to write another book. I wrote a book, but at the time, but my mindset wasn’t right. And I did it on personal branding. But then everyone started deciding they were personal branding experts. And I thought, you know what, I don’t need to compete with these people. I’m just, I’m just going to do something else.

Because that’s, that’s the thing is that I don’t see the point in competing.

Spencer Gallagher 19:52
We all have notifications coming up. I swear, I was gonna turn those off before I did this. But anyway.

Nathaniel Schooler 19:59
It doesn’t matter happens all the time. You know, but but So where was I had a really great train of thought there.

And both those notifications just went off….

Spencer Gallagher 20:16
You were talking about. And I completely was connecting with it was, “you wrote the book, and then it felt you felt like everybody else had written the same book.”

Nathaniel Schooler 20:24
Yeah, yeah, so Exactly. So I just decided that, you know what, I’m not gonna, I’m not going to do a book on personal branding anymore. I’m just going to sell it myself or my own website, if people buy it, that’s great. And that’s what I did. And, and it was, and it’s a really good book. Yeah, but I think the next book I’m going to write, I’ve got a title for it. I’m not going to talk about it now. But I’m going to try and get my Dad to help me write it. Because he’s had his own business. He used to teach business. He was Britain’s leading business management expert for 10 years in the 80s.

Yeah. So, you know, I’m going to try and recruit him to help me, he will say:-

“Yeah, sure. Nat, I’ll help you.” But he’s 85. So it’ll be like, you can do the work. And I’ll just sit and read it kind of figure out which is, which is, you know, which is fine, because that’s really nice to just to just hang out with your folks, you know.

Spencer Gallagher 21:18
That point, that point you made there, I think, is quite because I so when I set up Cactus to help agencies scale, there was nobody else in the UK doing this, right. And you might remember, we set this sort of other business up called The Agency Collective, which was helping the sub 1 million pound agencies, which is the majority grow, no one was supporting agency growth, and no one was holistically under the bonnet, helping agencies scale it forward the clock five, six years later, it feels like every single person on planet is doing what I do now, of course.

So we wrote the book Agencynomics as a way to, you know in a way to kind of, I guess, just comodotise to a certain degree, most of the information that was maybe often, you know, not really published, not really. Since I’ve written the book, I think there’s two or three more books have come out.

And, you know, and the thing is, is that I think that’s just life, right. You know, you’re a leader, you lead, you follow, you know.

Sometimes, you know, I think my, I was told once you know, pioneers, get scalped. I’ve always kind of been not really, I wasn’t the first person to build websites as a company. But I was kind of close to it. And I wasn’t the first person to write a book on how to grow and agency, but I was pretty close to it.

And I think, you know, you’re, you’re always going to find whatever you do business, or writing, you know, and your new ventures, all of a sudden, that’s building it. But I think you do have to run your own race. I think the lesson I’ve learned in life now is I’ve switched off all of the noise, the competition people around me, and I just let you focus on what my own race because I know that I work, you know, more progressively that say, the most other people, so I will always lead to certain or lesser extent.

You have got to do the same really.

Nathaniel Schooler 23:02
Yeah, I agree completely. I think it’s a question of attitude as well, isn’t it? And, but also, it goes back to, who do you want to work with, because there are going to be certain people that you love to work with, and I love to work with. Because I’m not being funny. But we’re quite similar in our life. I don’t like admin, you don’t like I don’t like finance, you don’t like finance.

Spencer Gallagher 23:21
I’m sure we have the same Myers Briggs personality, I’m sure.

Nathaniel Schooler 23:24
Right. So, so all of the people It seems that I talked to on a daily basis, most of them are like us. But so the people who are very different, I’m not going to enjoy doing business with on the whole, because they’re actually going to, like, just do my head in yeah, and that’s, and that’s the same with you.

And I suppose that’s, that’s when you decide, right. I’m going to build a business and deal with people that I don’t want to deal with myself. So I need to hire people who are this type of person who will deal with that type of individual. You know?

Spencer Gallagher 23:58
I mean, I’m not sure I’d be as harsh as that. I mean, I, you know, I find myself actually often better when I have opposite people around me. I mean, I know you saying though. So in terms of like personality types, if I’m going out and meeting low want to work with, I do get on really well with other expressive extroverted people, right. Because, you know, I can have good banter and everything else.

But sometimes when I’m trying to, you know, if I’m trying to grow our businesses, I recognise that some of the best people I work with a creatives. They are, they are engineers, they’re often introverted. And actually, I love this a complete opposite of me, I think I’m not and I’m extroverted.

I do get on very well it’s that Steve Jobs and Wozniak kind of, you know, partnership, you know, my business partner is complete opposite of me. But, you know, in some ways that we were together we become something else.

I tried to turn them off, and I still believe so, right.

Nathaniel Schooler 24:58
Mine with go off in a minute.

Spencer Gallagher 25:00
So you are right. I mean, I do find that the people like me, I guess I know how to inspire those people, and how to motivate those people. And I guess they they relate to, we relate to each other better.

And I would say in agencies it is interesting because what I’m trying to scale agencies up, the people who are more like me, tend to grow business faster, because they are often more sales focused, they are often more you know, that they’re there they have struggled visions that they know they are, they may have more drive ultimately.

They are not necessarily a craftsman, you know, where’s the creatives and the techies, they want to build a business below the product, the service the product, product, or services or service with brand, brand, but everything comes first. And, and I totally respect that.

But then I think there are different techniques for those people to scale compared with me. So yeah, I think, you know, I’m fascinated by the whole subject of personalities and, and learning to understand how to move different types of personalities.

Because I think that’s the real challenge. It’s easy for us to, to get energy from people like ourselves, right? But it’s how do you inspire people without your personality to achieve, you know, their goals as well,

Nathaniel Schooler 26:14
That’s interesting that you’re interested in that I’m interested in, I’m interested in actually how to communicate with those certain other types of individuals. That’s what I’m into right now is just sort of learning the type of message to send to that particular person that’s going to not inspire them just get a get the result that I want.

Spencer Gallagher 26:37
Do you know the product CrystalKnows

Nathaniel Schooler 26:39
Pardon?

Spencer Gallagher 26:40
You know, the product CrystalKnows

Nathaniel Schooler 26:42
Is that is that is that like a techie communication product that plugs into emails and stuff and suggest the right words to use?

Spencer Gallagher 26:50
Yes, I used to be one earlier on and it was a little bit shaky but I don’t want to use the reason read I must we look at it myself but but what it would do is say you know, this person who are writing to is really detailed based on all of the emails they’ve sent you so far their LinkedIn profile or Twitter profile to use this kind of AI and and mixes in with their personality and you know what i’m not saying it’s an exact science but sometimes like it says.

For me, when emailing Spencer always use four lines or less, you know what, it’s so true, if you email me with less than four lines, I will reply to you probably within a matter of hours, if you are more than firelight. four lines. It takes me a week.

Because to do a detailed reply, I have to sit down after be in the right frame of mind, I’m gonna have to give it proper attention, he no distractions and I pretty much only get that time on Sunday morning, if I decide to get up and, you know, and try and, and do a little bit of work. So, yes, I think that’s a great tool. It’s worth checking out.

Nathaniel Schooler 27:53
That’s very cool. I will try to get a link for that in the in the show notes and have a little look.

Spencer Gallagher 27:59
I’m gonna send you an email. Tell me how. See how it says, I have to email you. I bet it says please write a short brief email.

Nathaniel Schooler 28:04
Yeah, two lines, like one line.

But know that that tool actually, I think plugs into one of the tools I use something called Nimble CRM. And it’s like, it’s like I’m going to pop a link in the show notes for that as well because it’s it’s basically it’s like a CIA tool, a CRM that basically every piece of public content around an individual that has put on online it will go and scour it and then it will pull in right.

Spencer Gallagher 28:37
That is fantastic?

Nathaniel Schooler 28:39
Yeah, I use it, I’m a Nimble partner and I’m interviewing the CEO in the next week or so around CRM he built something called Gold Mine.

Spencer Gallagher 28:49
Oh yes I remember GoldMine yeah, because GoldMine and Act were kind of the old CRMs and back in the day we would use; so what’s that product called?

Nathaniel Schooler 28:58
Nimble, I’ll drop you info below, because I have a referral code.

www.natschooler.com/nimble 

Enter the referral code to get three months at 40% discount :- Jon40

Spencer Gallagher 29:03
But like the problem is I do use another another well known CRM system and I am not migrating anything away It’s been too painful together.

Nathaniel Schooler 29:12
Yeah

Spencer Gallagher 29:14
There used to be a Charlie app and they used to do that used to go because what I love to do with my clients is getting them to do persona work on their own clients.

So who are the clients?

What are their interests?

What are they into?

And Charlie I’m used to do that but now I think they’ve turned it into a commercial product and they get it to check it out but right this this product you said sounds brilliant.

Nathaniel Schooler 29:34
Well I’m a nimble partner, so you know I sort of work quite closely with those guys; but the tool is so amazing because like you know like you can have a conversation with someone in an email and they might email you well you just copy their name drop drop their name and email into this thing.

And it will go and find them and it will find them on LinkedIn find them on Facebook find them on Twitter and Angel list wherever the hell they are and then you just go yep that’s him click click click click and then it pulls it all in and just and you basically you know exactly what they’ve been up to you know which platforms they post on the most you know and also it’s got a Twitter integration as well. Which is, which is really cool.

I use it as my inbox. It’s my inbox now, like, literally, I just use that instead of like, I don’t know, but you know, it’s, you get lost in this geeky world.

Spencer Gallagher 30:30
Yes, it’s not that I’m a stalker. I just forget if it was a lot. So when someone’s telling me what football team they support I always forget. So those tools a great more for me, just to remind me of those literally in the little details that may be I’m sometimes can’t, can’t always remember.

Nathaniel Schooler 30:48
I am just laughing, laughing at you, because I am the same It was really funny, as they say, they’re all really intelligent people forget loads of stuff. So don’t worry!

Spencer Gallagher 30:57
I’ll take that as a compliment.

Nathaniel Schooler 31:01
That’s a classic man.

Spencer Gallagher 31:03
It’s because I’m a visual learner. I’m really a visual learner. And I just have to take some time to store these things in my head, rather than just have a conversation and never tend to stick, you know, so.

Nathaniel Schooler 31:15
That’s really funny. So how do people get hold of you, then Spencer? If they if they want to find you get some help in growing their digital or you deal with other agencies and other businesses? Or is it just digital marketing?

Spencer Gallagher 31:27
No, no, I, you know, I use the word agency. But, you know, I don’t mean government agencies or recruitment agencies, I specifically work with design, brand, creative, advertising, marketing, technology businesses, that the sell a service, you know, so more like that we call digital agencies.

But I think today, most agencies have digital technology at the heart of everything they do even the brand agencies, I work with are very, very innovative in terms of technology.

So, yes, I guess there’s a skew a little bit, because I I’m good with technology, I have good understanding of the way it’s evolving, the speed is evolving, and, and that helps keep my clients services, less commoditized, you know.

I got rid of that. And then another one happened…(Notifications…..)

Nathaniel Schooler 32:18
I just leave them in now. People use

Spencer Gallagher 32:29
So LinkedIn is probably the best way to get to get hold of me. But the one thing I would say is only connect to people I met or no, she’s a really big bone of contention. So what I would say is, if you do add me on LinkedIn, please send me a message.

Actually, I’m quite happy there for it to be more than four lines but please send me a message telling me a bit about yourself and your business and then and then what I normally do is I try and set up a call just to speak; to understand more about what you’ve been up to and what your plans are and yeah, so so LinkedIn I would say is the best way.

Nathaniel Schooler 33:00
So you basically been doing this digital agency growth business Cact.us for what, ten years?

Spencer Gallagher 33:06
So it’s actually eight years because I took some time out after selling the business, just to really think about what I wanted to do next. So it’s been eight years now and you know, I’ve helped you know, over 1000 agencies and you know, my core clients average growth at 85% per year; so that’s quite you know, quite fast growth we have some good methodology to help accelerate growth and also overcome growth challenges that agencies hit; we will hit them as all businesses hit them a certain sizes.

Nathaniel Schooler 33:41
Very cool. Well, thanks so much for your time. I know you got to get off and survive, so Speak to you soon.

Spencer Gallagher 33:46
Yeah, been great speaking to and I love chewing the fat as I say,

nat 33:53
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